After reading your excellent book/vids Sharpen This, I started phasing in the Kuromaku stones into my line up. The idea was as I wore my mostly Norton stones out I would sub in the Shapton. The first was the 1000 Orange and it has made an incredible difference. The grinder then 1000 is perfect for foundational work. This is followed by the Norton 4000 which works well but there’s definitely that feel (now that you mention it). It seems that stone is wearing much faster than the Shapton. On the positive side it also flattens with the DMT faster. Lastly, i finish with the 10,000 Ohishi (?) that LN sells. It polishes beautifully but the jump from 4 to 10 is very broad and I feel I’m spending a lot of time polishing for only decent results (multiple deep scratches remaining), never pristine (few or no scratches). So I think an 8,000 might be the next in the line up, and the 10,000 goes on hold or only for those special lapping projects, straight edge razors…. .
I haven't tried anywhere even near as many other forms of sharpening systems in general or water stones in particular as you have, nor will I ever, because a while back I switched to Shapton Kuromakus, and have no intention of ever using anything else again.
I find them to be exactly as you describe them: cut fast, wear slow and give great feedback. They don't make sharpening fun, because nothing can (at least not for me), but they make it straightforward and faffless, to the point where I will go sharpen as soon as I should rather than wait until it absolutely cannot be put off any longer.
Just a small observation: Chris uses a diamond lapping plate for flattening these Shapton stones. I have an extra extra coarse DMT that works, although it's plenty worn. Recently I tried the Pride flattening plate; a non-diamond affair. Slow as can be on the Shapton stones. The diamond stone recommendation is dead on.
A dog crate replacement crate pan is a great alternative to the boot tray. Boot trays usually have the diamond plating to handle muddy boots. Crate pans usually have a lot less texture on it, which can just be covered with a spare silicone mat from the kitchen to prevent any sliding.
Recently began using the Shapton stones. They work great, but I noticed the Dia-Flat lapping plate cuts grooves into the stone when flattening. Not sure if the lapping plates needs broken in or if I should not be concerned with the grooves?
Do I have to worry about grit contamination with shaptons? I heard somewhere that you can transfer lower grit abrasive to higher grit stones unless you carefully wipe the blade between every grit... what do you do?
"Grit contamination" is not a real thing in the practical world. Of course you wipe the blade after touching it to the stone – how else are you going to be able to see your progress?
I just sharpen like a normal person and worry more about the wood instead of the steel.
Great read, I own the same stones as Chris and love them. I also own the Shapton glass stones and Chris is right on these, I will leave it at that, they are nice for sharping something other than plane irons and chisels. I also own the Shapton Diamond Glass Lapping Plate and the DMT, they both work well, but for production work. The plate that kicks serious ass is the DMT and it is cheaper.
I kinda copied your sharpening system after watching your Sharpen This video. I worked with a double sided trend diamond plate (300/1000) which I now use for flattening the stones. It was a great improvement to my sharpening and I never look back.
Only thing that annoys me is flattening the backs of "not-so-premium" blades or establishing a new bevel. So I got myself the 120 grit stone from shapton to hog off material - I don't care if it wears fast to get the job done. But wearing is the only thing that stone does for me. You should see the groove left by the wheel of my honing guide....
I am still looking out for a proper way to get these tasks done. Once a blade is dialed in you don't need that anymore, but getting there is a pain.
I do have a bench grinder and I use it for creating new bevels, but it doesn't offer a solution for the mirror sides.
No. I don't have water in the bench room. After flattening, I squirt them with water from a plant sprayer and wipe off the slurry. Done. Then I spray the diamond plate with water and wipe it, too.
When I sharpen, I try to sharpen three tools: the one that I know needs sharpening and two others that will be due soon. After sharpening the three tools, I flatten the stones. Flattening takes less than a minute for all three.
You have to be reasonable about it, however. If you have to make a camber on a blade, you might need to sharpen after one edge. If you are touching up narrow chisels, you might not need to flatten until you do six edges.
Bottom line: I flatten at the end of the sharpening session so the stones are flat and ready to go when I need to sharpen again.
I'm long past the days where I was rehabbing old chisels and plane blades. I have no interest in that any more. Especially flattening the backs.
But what always bugged me about the Shapton pro stones was that the backs of the blades seemed to suction cup themselves to the stones. Far more than other media or brands. I found it very frustrating. Working on the edge was great. But flattening the backs was maddening.
The Diaflat wasn't around then, but I used an 8 inch DMT that was 120 grit. I even tried a couple of those Japanese stones to work up a slurry, but it didn't help.
I also use the Kuromaku stones but I did get a few more grits thinking I could have less time on each. Not sure if that has proven to be the case - I’m not into elaborate comparison testing. But I have a question- what do you think of them for use on the CPM Magnacut plane blades?
Thanks Chris. I have used these same 3 grits of the suggested Shapton Kuramaku stones for about 3 years and the diamond flattening plate . All you say is correct, they are my go to sharpening stones. Easy to flatten with the diamond plate and no soaking is great. Highly recommended.
Over the years I have accumulated a modest assortment of various stones from various manufacturers (there are a lot of them out there!), and they all fail to meet my hopes and expectations—for all the reasons you describe. I always assumed it was something wrong with me or my technique — although it was interesting to find myself thinking “Why does this particular 1000 grit stone seem to feel better and work better than that other 1000 grit stone?”
I am now looking forward to buying and trying out some Shapton stones.
After reading your excellent book/vids Sharpen This, I started phasing in the Kuromaku stones into my line up. The idea was as I wore my mostly Norton stones out I would sub in the Shapton. The first was the 1000 Orange and it has made an incredible difference. The grinder then 1000 is perfect for foundational work. This is followed by the Norton 4000 which works well but there’s definitely that feel (now that you mention it). It seems that stone is wearing much faster than the Shapton. On the positive side it also flattens with the DMT faster. Lastly, i finish with the 10,000 Ohishi (?) that LN sells. It polishes beautifully but the jump from 4 to 10 is very broad and I feel I’m spending a lot of time polishing for only decent results (multiple deep scratches remaining), never pristine (few or no scratches). So I think an 8,000 might be the next in the line up, and the 10,000 goes on hold or only for those special lapping projects, straight edge razors…. .
I haven't tried anywhere even near as many other forms of sharpening systems in general or water stones in particular as you have, nor will I ever, because a while back I switched to Shapton Kuromakus, and have no intention of ever using anything else again.
I find them to be exactly as you describe them: cut fast, wear slow and give great feedback. They don't make sharpening fun, because nothing can (at least not for me), but they make it straightforward and faffless, to the point where I will go sharpen as soon as I should rather than wait until it absolutely cannot be put off any longer.
Just a small observation: Chris uses a diamond lapping plate for flattening these Shapton stones. I have an extra extra coarse DMT that works, although it's plenty worn. Recently I tried the Pride flattening plate; a non-diamond affair. Slow as can be on the Shapton stones. The diamond stone recommendation is dead on.
A dog crate replacement crate pan is a great alternative to the boot tray. Boot trays usually have the diamond plating to handle muddy boots. Crate pans usually have a lot less texture on it, which can just be covered with a spare silicone mat from the kitchen to prevent any sliding.
Just got the Shapton's you recommended. Wow, such a huge difference compared to the cheap stones I had before.
Recently began using the Shapton stones. They work great, but I noticed the Dia-Flat lapping plate cuts grooves into the stone when flattening. Not sure if the lapping plates needs broken in or if I should not be concerned with the grooves?
Don’t worry about the scratches in the stone. I actually find the scratches to be advantageous because your tools don’t stick to the stone as much.
Do I have to worry about grit contamination with shaptons? I heard somewhere that you can transfer lower grit abrasive to higher grit stones unless you carefully wipe the blade between every grit... what do you do?
"Grit contamination" is not a real thing in the practical world. Of course you wipe the blade after touching it to the stone – how else are you going to be able to see your progress?
I just sharpen like a normal person and worry more about the wood instead of the steel.
Great read, I own the same stones as Chris and love them. I also own the Shapton glass stones and Chris is right on these, I will leave it at that, they are nice for sharping something other than plane irons and chisels. I also own the Shapton Diamond Glass Lapping Plate and the DMT, they both work well, but for production work. The plate that kicks serious ass is the DMT and it is cheaper.
I'm making the jump from diamond stones to the Kuromakus. They arrived today.
On my diamond stones, i used Windex.
I'm assuming that like the 'soaker' stones I've used in the past, that the Kuromakus need to be sprayed with water and NOT Windex.
Safe assumption?
Windex is fine. Your call. They are not very porous
Thanks Christopher. Glad to hear!
I kinda copied your sharpening system after watching your Sharpen This video. I worked with a double sided trend diamond plate (300/1000) which I now use for flattening the stones. It was a great improvement to my sharpening and I never look back.
Only thing that annoys me is flattening the backs of "not-so-premium" blades or establishing a new bevel. So I got myself the 120 grit stone from shapton to hog off material - I don't care if it wears fast to get the job done. But wearing is the only thing that stone does for me. You should see the groove left by the wheel of my honing guide....
I am still looking out for a proper way to get these tasks done. Once a blade is dialed in you don't need that anymore, but getting there is a pain.
I do have a bench grinder and I use it for creating new bevels, but it doesn't offer a solution for the mirror sides.
Do they need to be rinsed after each use? I don't have running water or a drain in my shop.
No. I don't have water in the bench room. After flattening, I squirt them with water from a plant sprayer and wipe off the slurry. Done. Then I spray the diamond plate with water and wipe it, too.
Oh, that's perfect, thanks. I'd like to try them but didn't think it'd be viable without a tap.
Nah. I wash them off under the tap about once every six months.
I have never used water stones. Please can you explain when to flatten? Do you flatten each time you use the stones? Thank you
When I sharpen, I try to sharpen three tools: the one that I know needs sharpening and two others that will be due soon. After sharpening the three tools, I flatten the stones. Flattening takes less than a minute for all three.
You have to be reasonable about it, however. If you have to make a camber on a blade, you might need to sharpen after one edge. If you are touching up narrow chisels, you might not need to flatten until you do six edges.
Bottom line: I flatten at the end of the sharpening session so the stones are flat and ready to go when I need to sharpen again.
Thank you. This is all very helpful.
I'm long past the days where I was rehabbing old chisels and plane blades. I have no interest in that any more. Especially flattening the backs.
But what always bugged me about the Shapton pro stones was that the backs of the blades seemed to suction cup themselves to the stones. Far more than other media or brands. I found it very frustrating. Working on the edge was great. But flattening the backs was maddening.
Were you using a Dia-Flat at the time? I have found that the Dia-Flat leaves deep scratches in the stone that prevent the suction problem.
The Diaflat wasn't around then, but I used an 8 inch DMT that was 120 grit. I even tried a couple of those Japanese stones to work up a slurry, but it didn't help.
I also use the Kuromaku stones but I did get a few more grits thinking I could have less time on each. Not sure if that has proven to be the case - I’m not into elaborate comparison testing. But I have a question- what do you think of them for use on the CPM Magnacut plane blades?
Thanks Chris. I have used these same 3 grits of the suggested Shapton Kuramaku stones for about 3 years and the diamond flattening plate . All you say is correct, they are my go to sharpening stones. Easy to flatten with the diamond plate and no soaking is great. Highly recommended.
Thank you Chris, this is incredibly helpful.
Over the years I have accumulated a modest assortment of various stones from various manufacturers (there are a lot of them out there!), and they all fail to meet my hopes and expectations—for all the reasons you describe. I always assumed it was something wrong with me or my technique — although it was interesting to find myself thinking “Why does this particular 1000 grit stone seem to feel better and work better than that other 1000 grit stone?”
I am now looking forward to buying and trying out some Shapton stones.